In this section of “They Say I Say” we were introduced to how to make an argument, and how to restate someone else’s argument in your writing. This was incredibly valuable to me especially because I struggled with my thesis statement in my project #1, so it was good to add some more tools to my toolbox. When writing the thesis statement is arguably the most important part of the entire paper, the rest of your paper should be tied to and relate to it. There were several tactics introduced to us to do that, first they gave us templates to introduce the argument that the people or thing you are writing about. Another way they gave us to introduce an argument is making what “they” say and turning it into something you say. You can do this by taking their argument and putting a little spin on it to make it seem like you can relate to what you’re saying. This especially stood out to me because in my first essay I didn’t give the soylent people enough props, and it ended up costing my argument because I didn’t present both sides evenly. There was also some formating that had to do with two sided arguments. These can be tricky to try and present both arguments and their issues. To resolve this the book discussed ways you can get around it, one being summarizing both sides of the debates and what’s valid about it as well as it’s flaws.
There were a lot of similarities between this chapter and some of the others that we have read. This chapter also focuses on the importance of including the “they say” perspective when arguing your point. I found it helpful that this chapter, like the others, stresses the necessity of adding the information that others are saying, especially when it motivates your argument. I found that I was never great at introducing other people’s views in my work, but the more I read about the “they say”, I become more confident about including it when I am writing. I think that this chapter was extremely helpful in showing me the best ways to add the “they say” into my writing through all of the examples and templates it provided. I find that I learn better when I am shown what to do using examples, instead of just being told, so having these templates to go back and use when I need to, is really helpful. I found this chapter as a whole super informative and I think it reiterated the importance of including the “they say” that we read about in the other chapters as well, without being too repetitive. I thought it was really cool to see that the chapter used real-world examples as well as the templates that were written specifically for this book. I also found it incredibly helpful that the chapter included exercises to try and practice with, as well as the templates. I think it is a great way for me to work on including other people’s ideas when I am writing. Out of all of the chapters that we have read so far, I think that this one has provided the most helpful information and examples for me.
In They Say/ I Say’s chapter titled “They Say”, it leads in with a story about a certain speaker and their use of evidence, namely a doctor, to illustrate their point and provide evidence in a concise manner that created a good, informed thesis. The only issue is that the thesis was not presented in conflict with anything in particular. As the story goes on, the speaker did bring up what they were arguing against, but without that prior information, their statement was confusing up until that point. This portrays the very vital part of a thesis, argument, or anything that tries to make a separate point. Without an opposition, a “they say”, so to speak, the thesis will have no purpose, and ultimately be completely useless. The intricacies of thesis creation can be easily overlooked, as the chapter also points out how one is supposed to introduce the thesis as soon as possible so that the reading has some meaning and isn’t confusing rambling without a point. But conversely, the thing that the thesis is arguing against needs to be just as equally apparent, otherwise the inverse happens and you end up like the speaker, with a point being made but no reason as to why the point was made in the first place. As the chapter goes on, the use of a thesis statement in parallel and opposition to something else by no means has to be wooden. In fact, creative use of this opposing statement can provide more form and construction to your piece, and can in turn make your thesis feel even more impactful. But furthermore, one shouldn’t simply throw those opposing arguments down, introduce your thesis, and then proceed to keep driving on your point while completely forgetting to keep them around. In your piece, you should keep coming back and referencing the opposing statements to further build the thesis and provide more persuasion than just driving home a point that’s by itself. These return sentences can be just as important as the thesis statement you are making, as they can act in a manner similar to road signs, keeping the reader focused and interested.
The most significant take away from this reading is to constantly refer back to what they say in order to further represent what I say. The reading insists that we enter our writing as if entering a conversation. By demonstrating an understanding of what they say, making my own claim based on this understanding will make what I say much more comprehensible to the reader. More importantly, the order of how I make my claim will influence the audience’s engagement while reading. If I explain what they say, the reader is better able to make connections to my own personal claim. Without creating this mutual understanding, the audience will not be able to follow along as best as they could, as compared to creating the understanding, where the reader is able to follow along. They use the example of George Orwell, in which he is basically saying, “everyone says no, but I am going to say yes, based on what everyone said”. Essentially, the reading asserts that the best way to make your audience understand your stance, is to exhibit an understanding of their stance, and precisely state how what they say, contributes to what I say.
In They Say/ I Say pages 19-29, the author talked about what “they say.” This reading was very thought-provoking as it discussed how writers and/or speakers should be introducing the thesis or point that is being responded to. I found the reading to be quite slow and difficult to comprehend at times, but I also believe that it brings up a very important point. Without introducing the point that the writer is responding to, it could be difficult for the readers or listeners to understand what is trying to be said. By introducing the topic, the confusion would be cut out entirely. The author also mentions the extra benefits that come with it. “You let those others do some of the work of framing and clarifying the issue you’re writing about.” Just by summarizing the other person’s views as quickly as you can, most of the work has already been done for you, since you now have an outline of what you will be discussing. I also found the templates to be very helpful, especially since the author gives many options for many different scenarios, such as “introducing what ‘they say’,” “standard views,” and “making what ‘they say’ something you say.” The author also discusses keeping what “they say” in view throughout the rest of the writing. This was something I hadn’t put much thought into, but after reading that portion of the reading, I realized how important it is. Keeping the reader’s attention on what “they say” throughout the text is just as important as introducing what “they say.” Overall, reading the section “Starting with What Others Are Saying” put into perspective for me how important it is to clarify what you are discussing about what “they say.”
This chapter goes more into depth about the importance of the opening of your piece. It’s necessary to include your topic in larger conversations in order to show its relevance. They introduced Dr. Xs speech; which left readers wondering why the argument was made in the first place. Then they brought in Goerge Orwells speech. His speech begins by grabbing the reader’s attention, using a “they say” to further introduce his “I say.” This is important because you dont want to leave the reader wondering about the significance of your argument and why it is important, do people disagree, disagree, etc.? The author also gave me future ideas on how to make my thesis stronger by introducing my paper with a fact or statistic. They provided insightful standard templates on how to introduce what “they say.” They introduced templates also to introduce what “you say.” I felt like these templates were super basic but could provide a lot of help to me on further projects. Usually in this class we are trying to argue a point when we are writing, therefore I felt like the templates on page 26 and 27 were extremely helpful. The author also reminded the writer the importance of reminding readers what cvlaims you are responding to, or else your argument may confuse them and seem insignificant. You always want to make sure to remind the readers what you are responding to. I tried to do the exercise on page 29 in my head, I thought about how to create an argument using the they say templates. This is what I came up with. “Many people believe social media has been detrimental to most teens’ mental health, but I think there are many other contributions to that.”
As I read the chapter “Starting with What Others Say” in They Say I Say, I came across multiple concepts that were interesting or helpful to my writing. A helpful idea that I will make sure to apply to my next piece of writing is to mention why I am writing about the topic. The author mentioned that Dr. X had the audience confused and unsure why he was defending the sociologists work but after he answered some questions, the audience was more engaged and understanding. I was always taught to start with my own side of the argument and then introduce what the opposing opinions are and then explain why the opposers opinions argument is wrong or not practical but it explained on page 21 in paragraph 3, it explains why its more effective to “present the argument as part of some larger conversation.” The templates are very helpful and I plan on using them for future writing projects. The templates are detailed and easy to follow which I appreciate. The exercises are informational and will help me create a solid “they say” argument. The Template for Introducing What “They Say” explains how you should start by introducing that the opposing arguments’ say x and then point out how it can be easy to dismiss x and then explain how they have had issues with their perspective. This graciously introduces how the opposing opinion is faulty and gives the audience or reader an idea of what will come next. The Templates for Introducing “Standard Views” provides different examples of ways to present a quick way to efficiently challenge commonly accepted beliefs and then examine and analyze the strong and weak points. The Templates for Making What “They Say” Something You Say gives examples of ways to introduce the perspectives you’re responding to as you’re own. The Templates for Introducing Something Implied or Assumed gives a couple different approaches to summarize an implied or known point that was not directly stated in the opposing sides argument. The Templates for Introducing an Ongoing Debate gives an in-detail explanation on how to efficiently debate that has multiple views and sides. This chapter ends with the strong recommendation to always keep in mind the “they say” side of the argument.
In this section of They Say I Say, they talk a lot about how to talk about what others say within your writing. I think this is very important to learn because then while we are writing papers we can have legitimate knowledge on how to use others words in the text. I found pages 19-29 very helpful. In the past as well as right now I struggle with writing. I usually have a rough time writing my thesis statement because I am not good at explaining things. I also have trouble opening up paragraphs in my writing pieces. In our first project in this class I really had issues trying to explain what I wanted to say in efficient ways. I feel like now with the templates from the reading it will be a lot easier when trying to do an argument piece. I do believe that my biggest issue with writing is presenting both sides of the argument evenly. Now after reading this chapter I will look back at the templates and have a better understanding of how to do that. A way that they said to introduce it would be taking what they say and turning it into what I say. I feel like I usually just flat out explain what they say and then I don’t even transition into what I say I just say both sides. Now I have learned that I should try to form some sort of agreement within both of the arguments and go from there. I think for project two this will really help me with my writing process. I usually have an issue being very repetitive and I see that a lot in my writing but now I think I will be better. This chapter was very informative and helpful, especially for me who somewhat struggles with writing.
In response to pages 19 through 29 in the book “they say I say” I believe the way the author opens up the context to the reader is very well spoken, when we are introduced to Dr. X and his views on constructing order when speaking in a written paper or having a conversation with another person. He continues to further his understanding of order to us by explaining the importance of an argument not by bickering back and forth with one another but by actually listening to what is being said and having an intellectual conversation by introducing your own thoughts as a response. I was intrigued by this strategy because it is something people so often forget when composing a paper with an opposing question, people forget to use facts and personal ideas as evidence and not just as a way to quickly give an unuseful response. If we read a little further down we can understand why this is important because if this argument is led by a thesis, everything will be much easier to tie back into your central idea and or question. This is the first time we see a “they say” and an “I say” where a given context makes for central arguments in an essay. This is important because it again relays back to the thesis and or your central argument and opens up the conversation for both sides. Something I believe I will be implementing in my future essays is the template for introducing something that is assumed. When introducing something that is assumed you then open up questioning that could lead to a future consensus between the central argument. Another template I plan on using in some of my future essays that require more comparing and contrasting is using the template keeping what they say in view. I feel as if this can also lead into the ongoing argument template as well by centralizing the discussion by keeping a respect on other peoples views.
At first, I wasn’t sure what point the authors were making with their story about the speaker. Perhaps it was because I don’t go to academic conferences and am not familiar with the standard speaking practices. Or, maybe the reason why I didn’t see anything wrong with what the speaker was doing in the story was because I do the same thing in real life: ramble and argue in conflict of nothing in particular. I think that indicating what larger conversation your thesis is responding to is like the significance portion of a scientific paper. In scientific writing, the significance section tends to be at the end of the paper. This is different in academic writing, where it is more beneficial to put it in the beginning. This makes so much more sense, in my opinion, after reading through the chapter more. The authors recommend one of two options, to state what “they say” before talking about your own point, or to state it soon after you begin the discussion. The first option I like better because the rule is concrete; I don’t have to worry about going on too long about my own thesis before mentioning what I am responding to. Also, getting what “they say” out of the way lets me talk about what I actually want to talk about, which is what “I say”. I haven’t put much thought into reminding readers of what “they say” at strategic points throughout my text. I now understand the importance of presenting both sides evenly, balancing what “they say” and what “I say”. I liked the other ways of opening that they mentioned: a quotation, statistic, or anecdote. They go past just improving reader understanding, they make your writing more colorful. Like I’ve said in my previous TS/IS journal entries, templates make my smooth brain happy.
11 thoughts on “JOURNAL # 11”
In this section of “They Say I Say” we were introduced to how to make an argument, and how to restate someone else’s argument in your writing. This was incredibly valuable to me especially because I struggled with my thesis statement in my project #1, so it was good to add some more tools to my toolbox. When writing the thesis statement is arguably the most important part of the entire paper, the rest of your paper should be tied to and relate to it. There were several tactics introduced to us to do that, first they gave us templates to introduce the argument that the people or thing you are writing about. Another way they gave us to introduce an argument is making what “they” say and turning it into something you say. You can do this by taking their argument and putting a little spin on it to make it seem like you can relate to what you’re saying. This especially stood out to me because in my first essay I didn’t give the soylent people enough props, and it ended up costing my argument because I didn’t present both sides evenly. There was also some formating that had to do with two sided arguments. These can be tricky to try and present both arguments and their issues. To resolve this the book discussed ways you can get around it, one being summarizing both sides of the debates and what’s valid about it as well as it’s flaws.
There were a lot of similarities between this chapter and some of the others that we have read. This chapter also focuses on the importance of including the “they say” perspective when arguing your point. I found it helpful that this chapter, like the others, stresses the necessity of adding the information that others are saying, especially when it motivates your argument. I found that I was never great at introducing other people’s views in my work, but the more I read about the “they say”, I become more confident about including it when I am writing. I think that this chapter was extremely helpful in showing me the best ways to add the “they say” into my writing through all of the examples and templates it provided. I find that I learn better when I am shown what to do using examples, instead of just being told, so having these templates to go back and use when I need to, is really helpful. I found this chapter as a whole super informative and I think it reiterated the importance of including the “they say” that we read about in the other chapters as well, without being too repetitive. I thought it was really cool to see that the chapter used real-world examples as well as the templates that were written specifically for this book. I also found it incredibly helpful that the chapter included exercises to try and practice with, as well as the templates. I think it is a great way for me to work on including other people’s ideas when I am writing. Out of all of the chapters that we have read so far, I think that this one has provided the most helpful information and examples for me.
In They Say/ I Say’s chapter titled “They Say”, it leads in with a story about a certain speaker and their use of evidence, namely a doctor, to illustrate their point and provide evidence in a concise manner that created a good, informed thesis. The only issue is that the thesis was not presented in conflict with anything in particular. As the story goes on, the speaker did bring up what they were arguing against, but without that prior information, their statement was confusing up until that point. This portrays the very vital part of a thesis, argument, or anything that tries to make a separate point. Without an opposition, a “they say”, so to speak, the thesis will have no purpose, and ultimately be completely useless. The intricacies of thesis creation can be easily overlooked, as the chapter also points out how one is supposed to introduce the thesis as soon as possible so that the reading has some meaning and isn’t confusing rambling without a point. But conversely, the thing that the thesis is arguing against needs to be just as equally apparent, otherwise the inverse happens and you end up like the speaker, with a point being made but no reason as to why the point was made in the first place. As the chapter goes on, the use of a thesis statement in parallel and opposition to something else by no means has to be wooden. In fact, creative use of this opposing statement can provide more form and construction to your piece, and can in turn make your thesis feel even more impactful. But furthermore, one shouldn’t simply throw those opposing arguments down, introduce your thesis, and then proceed to keep driving on your point while completely forgetting to keep them around. In your piece, you should keep coming back and referencing the opposing statements to further build the thesis and provide more persuasion than just driving home a point that’s by itself. These return sentences can be just as important as the thesis statement you are making, as they can act in a manner similar to road signs, keeping the reader focused and interested.
The most significant take away from this reading is to constantly refer back to what they say in order to further represent what I say. The reading insists that we enter our writing as if entering a conversation. By demonstrating an understanding of what they say, making my own claim based on this understanding will make what I say much more comprehensible to the reader. More importantly, the order of how I make my claim will influence the audience’s engagement while reading. If I explain what they say, the reader is better able to make connections to my own personal claim. Without creating this mutual understanding, the audience will not be able to follow along as best as they could, as compared to creating the understanding, where the reader is able to follow along. They use the example of George Orwell, in which he is basically saying, “everyone says no, but I am going to say yes, based on what everyone said”. Essentially, the reading asserts that the best way to make your audience understand your stance, is to exhibit an understanding of their stance, and precisely state how what they say, contributes to what I say.
In They Say/ I Say pages 19-29, the author talked about what “they say.” This reading was very thought-provoking as it discussed how writers and/or speakers should be introducing the thesis or point that is being responded to. I found the reading to be quite slow and difficult to comprehend at times, but I also believe that it brings up a very important point. Without introducing the point that the writer is responding to, it could be difficult for the readers or listeners to understand what is trying to be said. By introducing the topic, the confusion would be cut out entirely. The author also mentions the extra benefits that come with it. “You let those others do some of the work of framing and clarifying the issue you’re writing about.” Just by summarizing the other person’s views as quickly as you can, most of the work has already been done for you, since you now have an outline of what you will be discussing. I also found the templates to be very helpful, especially since the author gives many options for many different scenarios, such as “introducing what ‘they say’,” “standard views,” and “making what ‘they say’ something you say.” The author also discusses keeping what “they say” in view throughout the rest of the writing. This was something I hadn’t put much thought into, but after reading that portion of the reading, I realized how important it is. Keeping the reader’s attention on what “they say” throughout the text is just as important as introducing what “they say.” Overall, reading the section “Starting with What Others Are Saying” put into perspective for me how important it is to clarify what you are discussing about what “they say.”
This chapter goes more into depth about the importance of the opening of your piece. It’s necessary to include your topic in larger conversations in order to show its relevance. They introduced Dr. Xs speech; which left readers wondering why the argument was made in the first place. Then they brought in Goerge Orwells speech. His speech begins by grabbing the reader’s attention, using a “they say” to further introduce his “I say.” This is important because you dont want to leave the reader wondering about the significance of your argument and why it is important, do people disagree, disagree, etc.? The author also gave me future ideas on how to make my thesis stronger by introducing my paper with a fact or statistic. They provided insightful standard templates on how to introduce what “they say.” They introduced templates also to introduce what “you say.” I felt like these templates were super basic but could provide a lot of help to me on further projects. Usually in this class we are trying to argue a point when we are writing, therefore I felt like the templates on page 26 and 27 were extremely helpful. The author also reminded the writer the importance of reminding readers what cvlaims you are responding to, or else your argument may confuse them and seem insignificant. You always want to make sure to remind the readers what you are responding to. I tried to do the exercise on page 29 in my head, I thought about how to create an argument using the they say templates. This is what I came up with. “Many people believe social media has been detrimental to most teens’ mental health, but I think there are many other contributions to that.”
As I read the chapter “Starting with What Others Say” in They Say I Say, I came across multiple concepts that were interesting or helpful to my writing. A helpful idea that I will make sure to apply to my next piece of writing is to mention why I am writing about the topic. The author mentioned that Dr. X had the audience confused and unsure why he was defending the sociologists work but after he answered some questions, the audience was more engaged and understanding. I was always taught to start with my own side of the argument and then introduce what the opposing opinions are and then explain why the opposers opinions argument is wrong or not practical but it explained on page 21 in paragraph 3, it explains why its more effective to “present the argument as part of some larger conversation.” The templates are very helpful and I plan on using them for future writing projects. The templates are detailed and easy to follow which I appreciate. The exercises are informational and will help me create a solid “they say” argument. The Template for Introducing What “They Say” explains how you should start by introducing that the opposing arguments’ say x and then point out how it can be easy to dismiss x and then explain how they have had issues with their perspective. This graciously introduces how the opposing opinion is faulty and gives the audience or reader an idea of what will come next. The Templates for Introducing “Standard Views” provides different examples of ways to present a quick way to efficiently challenge commonly accepted beliefs and then examine and analyze the strong and weak points. The Templates for Making What “They Say” Something You Say gives examples of ways to introduce the perspectives you’re responding to as you’re own. The Templates for Introducing Something Implied or Assumed gives a couple different approaches to summarize an implied or known point that was not directly stated in the opposing sides argument. The Templates for Introducing an Ongoing Debate gives an in-detail explanation on how to efficiently debate that has multiple views and sides. This chapter ends with the strong recommendation to always keep in mind the “they say” side of the argument.
In this section of They Say I Say, they talk a lot about how to talk about what others say within your writing. I think this is very important to learn because then while we are writing papers we can have legitimate knowledge on how to use others words in the text. I found pages 19-29 very helpful. In the past as well as right now I struggle with writing. I usually have a rough time writing my thesis statement because I am not good at explaining things. I also have trouble opening up paragraphs in my writing pieces. In our first project in this class I really had issues trying to explain what I wanted to say in efficient ways. I feel like now with the templates from the reading it will be a lot easier when trying to do an argument piece. I do believe that my biggest issue with writing is presenting both sides of the argument evenly. Now after reading this chapter I will look back at the templates and have a better understanding of how to do that. A way that they said to introduce it would be taking what they say and turning it into what I say. I feel like I usually just flat out explain what they say and then I don’t even transition into what I say I just say both sides. Now I have learned that I should try to form some sort of agreement within both of the arguments and go from there. I think for project two this will really help me with my writing process. I usually have an issue being very repetitive and I see that a lot in my writing but now I think I will be better. This chapter was very informative and helpful, especially for me who somewhat struggles with writing.
In response to pages 19 through 29 in the book “they say I say” I believe the way the author opens up the context to the reader is very well spoken, when we are introduced to Dr. X and his views on constructing order when speaking in a written paper or having a conversation with another person. He continues to further his understanding of order to us by explaining the importance of an argument not by bickering back and forth with one another but by actually listening to what is being said and having an intellectual conversation by introducing your own thoughts as a response. I was intrigued by this strategy because it is something people so often forget when composing a paper with an opposing question, people forget to use facts and personal ideas as evidence and not just as a way to quickly give an unuseful response. If we read a little further down we can understand why this is important because if this argument is led by a thesis, everything will be much easier to tie back into your central idea and or question. This is the first time we see a “they say” and an “I say” where a given context makes for central arguments in an essay. This is important because it again relays back to the thesis and or your central argument and opens up the conversation for both sides. Something I believe I will be implementing in my future essays is the template for introducing something that is assumed. When introducing something that is assumed you then open up questioning that could lead to a future consensus between the central argument. Another template I plan on using in some of my future essays that require more comparing and contrasting is using the template keeping what they say in view. I feel as if this can also lead into the ongoing argument template as well by centralizing the discussion by keeping a respect on other peoples views.
At first, I wasn’t sure what point the authors were making with their story about the speaker. Perhaps it was because I don’t go to academic conferences and am not familiar with the standard speaking practices. Or, maybe the reason why I didn’t see anything wrong with what the speaker was doing in the story was because I do the same thing in real life: ramble and argue in conflict of nothing in particular. I think that indicating what larger conversation your thesis is responding to is like the significance portion of a scientific paper. In scientific writing, the significance section tends to be at the end of the paper. This is different in academic writing, where it is more beneficial to put it in the beginning. This makes so much more sense, in my opinion, after reading through the chapter more. The authors recommend one of two options, to state what “they say” before talking about your own point, or to state it soon after you begin the discussion. The first option I like better because the rule is concrete; I don’t have to worry about going on too long about my own thesis before mentioning what I am responding to. Also, getting what “they say” out of the way lets me talk about what I actually want to talk about, which is what “I say”. I haven’t put much thought into reminding readers of what “they say” at strategic points throughout my text. I now understand the importance of presenting both sides evenly, balancing what “they say” and what “I say”. I liked the other ways of opening that they mentioned: a quotation, statistic, or anecdote. They go past just improving reader understanding, they make your writing more colorful. Like I’ve said in my previous TS/IS journal entries, templates make my smooth brain happy.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iawb2pbH64XPfiK0ppyZtst2-qUCnGpeF0Y4g0rwCA8/edit