The beginning of the chapter made me realize that I don’t read as many books as I should. I often look at others’ work and envy how beautiful and eloquent it is. It simply comes down to exposing yourself to other writing styles and authors. The beginning also reminded me that no one is born with the knowledge of how to write. People pick up little pieces here and there, perhaps by reading books like They Say/I Say.
Later in the chapter, the authors made it very clear that without a “they say”, there is no point in your argument. What I also picked up from this chapter is that there can be an inferred “they say”; it doesn’t always have to be obvious. You don’t always have to disagree with “them”. “They” whom you are talking about can also be another side of you. I originally thought that the opposing point always had to be from a real academic source. The chapter reassured me by saying that it’s okay to make up a person or people to have something to argue against. This contested my previous notion of it being a logical fallacy.
I found the master template worthful, and I predict it will come in handy when writing my Soylent essay. Furthermore, I imagine this entire book will be invaluable in my college writing career. The templates are for formatting how one says something, not for providing exact phrases to regurgitate. They lead you to become more creative with your writing, and like many other professional ventures, it requires a starting point. It may help me be more creative in the long run, too, and give me confidence to debate in the real world. I don’t have to feel bad for using templates to improve my writing. Becoming better at writing is a process.
In pages 1-18 of They Say I Say, we see the explanation to the name of the book and how you want your words to be perceived. At the beginning of page 10, there is more description on the title, training writers. The introduction paragraph interests me with comparing writing as something you learn to do intuitively, such as riding a bike. “How it’s done” is the paragraph that caught my attention the most, with the addition of motivation into your writing. Using Martin Luther King’s speeches as a template is a powerful example. The bottom of page 7 highlights that the purpose of his writing and his audience was the reason his writing was so powerful, because it was an argument. I was confused by the purpose of the statement that “they say” implies that to teach literature, you have to have grown up liking books. Following the argumentative introduction I don’t see the correlation. I haven’t written many argumentative essays in my writing life, although I definitely have taken strong perspectives on topics. I have definitely written trying to persuade different sides of a perspective, my final english and history essays had an argumentative thesis to them and I used similar lines to the templates used. In particular with my history final was a ten plus page essay on Fidel Castro, similarly to Martin Luther King’s speeches, however with much different meaning and purpose. Although I was not imitating that kind of writing with my own, I still get the understanding of how using the motive behind your words can change how someone views your writing. You can also see this in writing about most anything, given the writer has a perspective on the topic they are writing about. For example Lizzie Wittecomb was skeptical about Soylent all throughout the paper keeping an open mind, and using examples to further the writing.
Reading”Entering the Conversation, I found that this book has a different way of describing academic writing. Graff and Birkenstein describe writing academic papers as “argumentative” opposed to being just educational. By persuading the reader it’s important to use the “voices of others” in the text. After you state that, you need to formulate your own opinion and ideas to respond to that or connect to it. Obviously, they emphasize the significance of the They say, I say formula in writing. If you do not have a “They Say” in your writing then your argument will most likely not be valid. MLK jr uses this formula in his letter from jail. You can clearly see his appropriate use of the formula; he states what his critics have expressed, he responds, and repeats. Another example of this formula was Pollitts letter regarding her daughter. She clearly expresses her daughters thoughts on the flag, and then hers. And then she finds a way to connect both of their points. Comparing these two articles to other authors; some authors do not state their opinion and expect the readers to ponder on it. The templates that were shown on pages 10 and 11 were helpful to use even in the project we are currently doing. They could be used to argue my point better and state if I disagree or agree correctly. An Example I found useful was While I understand the impulse to____, my own view is ___. The book summed up that it is not plagiarism; although sometimes we feel like it is. I asked my own teacher this one time when writing a Scientific paper. Using writing formulas with your own ideas is in fact not plagiarism, which makes sense. I found a lot of information in this chapter helpful, especially the examples that included others’ writing to demonstrate the principles.
When writing anything, one needs certain phrases and conventions that take it out of the realm of nonsensical blather and into something that actually has a point or idea to convey. No more is this idea critical than in the realm of argumentative writing. As the book They Say/I Say states, people “don’t make arguments without being provoked”, and if one were to simply make a statement about something with zero context, you’d at best be disregarded and at worst called crazy. (Pg. 3) The idea of formulas for writing as represented in the book was not exactly a new idea, but not one that I even thought of being a concept. For me, formulas are strictly either in the fields of math and science, or conversely at the beginning stages of essay writing to help understand what precisely an essay is. But it is true that in math or science, as one progresses one deals with new concepts and one must learn new formulas for those concepts. That same idea of progression in learning over time can very much be applied to essay writing, or simply English in general. For example, when one reads books, one takes them at relative face value and with a bit of deeper thinking at earlier levels of schooling. But, as one becomes a more informed and comprehensive reader one begins to utilize more critical thinking skills such as taking into account the circumstances at the time, double meanings of words and phrases, as well as who the author really was as a person and how they perceived the world. So it is purely logical that one would learn formulas for creating a better argumentative essay beyond the standard five-paragraph first dip. A key takeaway I gathered was that the book states that the literary conveyance “they say___, I say___” is the most important formula and aspect of the whole book, as well as the name of the book. The emphasis placed on these four words are indeed critical, and every other argumentative conveyance is simply branching off of that idea.
I thought that this chapter in they say I say was extremely helpful. I liked how the book offered different writing templates in order to help “enter the conversation” and then encouraged you to actually use them. These templates are something that I will be using in my future writing when I need assistance in introducing a topic. I learned a lot of interesting things about academic writing and how important it is to not just argue your point but to introduce it into a conversation with the readers. I thought it was interesting when the chapter talked about how adding the ‘they say’ into an argument is important or it can leave the readers wondering why the argument is being talked about in the first place. I guess I never really thought about how the ‘they say’ adds clarity to the argument you are delivering. I found it helpful how in-depth the chapter went into the need to add the ‘they say’ in an argument. It really emphasizes the importance of other people’s views on the controversial topic in your writing. I found the templates to enter the conversation easy to understand but also very well set up. I found the paragraph about plagiarism really helpful for me. I have never really been the type to use pre-written templates like these in my work because I was worried about plagiarizing. However, because I now know that it isn’t plagiarism and I can use templates like these in my writing is very helpful. I also found these templates quite helpful because sometimes I have a hard time coming up with the right things to say, so being able to use these as a jumping-off point is going to really improve my writing. I feel like the information that this chapter provided will be extremely useful for me when I am writing in the future.
In this chapter, I found it interesting how in the beginning they started off by describing how writing is like muscle memory. They compared it to things like riding a bike that is easy for most of us because we already learned it. It discusses use of templates to form a structure to a writing that majority of people follow. They discuss the formation of our own ideas in response to others with the prompt being the same as the title, “They say, I say”. It also discusses how the best academic writing is when it is deeply engaged with others’ views. Then the book discusses how framing the “I say” part as a response to what “they say” to show contrast. The book also gives tips about writing an essay and to ask yourself questions while writing, like “Who says otherwise?” and “Who can dispute it?” Many writers use this format to challenge standard ways of thinking and create controversy. The book gives a lot of templates to accomplish this kind of writing and make it much deeper and engaging for the reader. Such examples that I find helpful for using contrast in an essay are “While I understand the impulse to _____, my own view is ____.” As well as templates for whether you agree or disagree in a response to another person’s writing. The book also has a “templates of templates” page where they discuss major moves to lengthen and work through the entire essay, as well as many transition sentences. I think this chapter is very helpful for the writing we are doing in class and the current essay we are working on.
When reading pages 1-18 in the book “They say I say” the introduction of the use of templates and the importance of structure throughout writing was clear when learning how to properly structure an essay and or paper along with keeping your reader engaged. The book explored many different topics and ways to execute the task of using a template successfully in an essay and when to use a template. A quote that stuck with me from the textbook was “academic writing has one hidden feature, it is deeply engaged in some way with other people’s views. Making whatever you are reporting on very much likable and agreeable with the correct audience. Another part of the textbook that had stuck out to me was the “listen before you leap” section on page 10. This allows the reader to almost argue with the listener in a non-aggressive way to almost try and get the other side to take a look at both views. This is often seen in politics or even sports but can be used as a weapon when writing to counter argue whatever may surprise you. I believe many of these templates can be used to your advantage when writing but we must remember these templates do not dictate the content of what we say, it only influences how we say it and what we truly mean by it. When trying to implement these templates into my own essay I had struggled as I was trying to make the template fit around my subject when I should have been doing just the opposite. It’s a skill to be able to write academically and is definitely one I am still practicing but I am thankful I have been able to learn a few of these new skills in hopes of implementing them into my own writing.
When reading the first part of “They Say I Say” reading there was a lot of valuable information to take away. One that I thought was very important was the point of making an argument. When writing a lot of people think trying to agree on everything presented is a good idea, but this can be a recipe for a very boring paper. These readings also included a certain template to write with to try and set yourself up in the right direction. It talked about making an argument to set up the rest of your paper. I’m looking forward to reading the rest of this text and putting some skills into my writing.
8 thoughts on “JOURNAL # 5”
The beginning of the chapter made me realize that I don’t read as many books as I should. I often look at others’ work and envy how beautiful and eloquent it is. It simply comes down to exposing yourself to other writing styles and authors. The beginning also reminded me that no one is born with the knowledge of how to write. People pick up little pieces here and there, perhaps by reading books like They Say/I Say.
Later in the chapter, the authors made it very clear that without a “they say”, there is no point in your argument. What I also picked up from this chapter is that there can be an inferred “they say”; it doesn’t always have to be obvious. You don’t always have to disagree with “them”. “They” whom you are talking about can also be another side of you. I originally thought that the opposing point always had to be from a real academic source. The chapter reassured me by saying that it’s okay to make up a person or people to have something to argue against. This contested my previous notion of it being a logical fallacy.
I found the master template worthful, and I predict it will come in handy when writing my Soylent essay. Furthermore, I imagine this entire book will be invaluable in my college writing career. The templates are for formatting how one says something, not for providing exact phrases to regurgitate. They lead you to become more creative with your writing, and like many other professional ventures, it requires a starting point. It may help me be more creative in the long run, too, and give me confidence to debate in the real world. I don’t have to feel bad for using templates to improve my writing. Becoming better at writing is a process.
In pages 1-18 of They Say I Say, we see the explanation to the name of the book and how you want your words to be perceived. At the beginning of page 10, there is more description on the title, training writers. The introduction paragraph interests me with comparing writing as something you learn to do intuitively, such as riding a bike. “How it’s done” is the paragraph that caught my attention the most, with the addition of motivation into your writing. Using Martin Luther King’s speeches as a template is a powerful example. The bottom of page 7 highlights that the purpose of his writing and his audience was the reason his writing was so powerful, because it was an argument. I was confused by the purpose of the statement that “they say” implies that to teach literature, you have to have grown up liking books. Following the argumentative introduction I don’t see the correlation. I haven’t written many argumentative essays in my writing life, although I definitely have taken strong perspectives on topics. I have definitely written trying to persuade different sides of a perspective, my final english and history essays had an argumentative thesis to them and I used similar lines to the templates used. In particular with my history final was a ten plus page essay on Fidel Castro, similarly to Martin Luther King’s speeches, however with much different meaning and purpose. Although I was not imitating that kind of writing with my own, I still get the understanding of how using the motive behind your words can change how someone views your writing. You can also see this in writing about most anything, given the writer has a perspective on the topic they are writing about. For example Lizzie Wittecomb was skeptical about Soylent all throughout the paper keeping an open mind, and using examples to further the writing.
Reading”Entering the Conversation, I found that this book has a different way of describing academic writing. Graff and Birkenstein describe writing academic papers as “argumentative” opposed to being just educational. By persuading the reader it’s important to use the “voices of others” in the text. After you state that, you need to formulate your own opinion and ideas to respond to that or connect to it. Obviously, they emphasize the significance of the They say, I say formula in writing. If you do not have a “They Say” in your writing then your argument will most likely not be valid. MLK jr uses this formula in his letter from jail. You can clearly see his appropriate use of the formula; he states what his critics have expressed, he responds, and repeats. Another example of this formula was Pollitts letter regarding her daughter. She clearly expresses her daughters thoughts on the flag, and then hers. And then she finds a way to connect both of their points. Comparing these two articles to other authors; some authors do not state their opinion and expect the readers to ponder on it. The templates that were shown on pages 10 and 11 were helpful to use even in the project we are currently doing. They could be used to argue my point better and state if I disagree or agree correctly. An Example I found useful was While I understand the impulse to____, my own view is ___. The book summed up that it is not plagiarism; although sometimes we feel like it is. I asked my own teacher this one time when writing a Scientific paper. Using writing formulas with your own ideas is in fact not plagiarism, which makes sense. I found a lot of information in this chapter helpful, especially the examples that included others’ writing to demonstrate the principles.
When writing anything, one needs certain phrases and conventions that take it out of the realm of nonsensical blather and into something that actually has a point or idea to convey. No more is this idea critical than in the realm of argumentative writing. As the book They Say/I Say states, people “don’t make arguments without being provoked”, and if one were to simply make a statement about something with zero context, you’d at best be disregarded and at worst called crazy. (Pg. 3) The idea of formulas for writing as represented in the book was not exactly a new idea, but not one that I even thought of being a concept. For me, formulas are strictly either in the fields of math and science, or conversely at the beginning stages of essay writing to help understand what precisely an essay is. But it is true that in math or science, as one progresses one deals with new concepts and one must learn new formulas for those concepts. That same idea of progression in learning over time can very much be applied to essay writing, or simply English in general. For example, when one reads books, one takes them at relative face value and with a bit of deeper thinking at earlier levels of schooling. But, as one becomes a more informed and comprehensive reader one begins to utilize more critical thinking skills such as taking into account the circumstances at the time, double meanings of words and phrases, as well as who the author really was as a person and how they perceived the world. So it is purely logical that one would learn formulas for creating a better argumentative essay beyond the standard five-paragraph first dip. A key takeaway I gathered was that the book states that the literary conveyance “they say___, I say___” is the most important formula and aspect of the whole book, as well as the name of the book. The emphasis placed on these four words are indeed critical, and every other argumentative conveyance is simply branching off of that idea.
I thought that this chapter in they say I say was extremely helpful. I liked how the book offered different writing templates in order to help “enter the conversation” and then encouraged you to actually use them. These templates are something that I will be using in my future writing when I need assistance in introducing a topic. I learned a lot of interesting things about academic writing and how important it is to not just argue your point but to introduce it into a conversation with the readers. I thought it was interesting when the chapter talked about how adding the ‘they say’ into an argument is important or it can leave the readers wondering why the argument is being talked about in the first place. I guess I never really thought about how the ‘they say’ adds clarity to the argument you are delivering. I found it helpful how in-depth the chapter went into the need to add the ‘they say’ in an argument. It really emphasizes the importance of other people’s views on the controversial topic in your writing. I found the templates to enter the conversation easy to understand but also very well set up. I found the paragraph about plagiarism really helpful for me. I have never really been the type to use pre-written templates like these in my work because I was worried about plagiarizing. However, because I now know that it isn’t plagiarism and I can use templates like these in my writing is very helpful. I also found these templates quite helpful because sometimes I have a hard time coming up with the right things to say, so being able to use these as a jumping-off point is going to really improve my writing. I feel like the information that this chapter provided will be extremely useful for me when I am writing in the future.
In this chapter, I found it interesting how in the beginning they started off by describing how writing is like muscle memory. They compared it to things like riding a bike that is easy for most of us because we already learned it. It discusses use of templates to form a structure to a writing that majority of people follow. They discuss the formation of our own ideas in response to others with the prompt being the same as the title, “They say, I say”. It also discusses how the best academic writing is when it is deeply engaged with others’ views. Then the book discusses how framing the “I say” part as a response to what “they say” to show contrast. The book also gives tips about writing an essay and to ask yourself questions while writing, like “Who says otherwise?” and “Who can dispute it?” Many writers use this format to challenge standard ways of thinking and create controversy. The book gives a lot of templates to accomplish this kind of writing and make it much deeper and engaging for the reader. Such examples that I find helpful for using contrast in an essay are “While I understand the impulse to _____, my own view is ____.” As well as templates for whether you agree or disagree in a response to another person’s writing. The book also has a “templates of templates” page where they discuss major moves to lengthen and work through the entire essay, as well as many transition sentences. I think this chapter is very helpful for the writing we are doing in class and the current essay we are working on.
When reading pages 1-18 in the book “They say I say” the introduction of the use of templates and the importance of structure throughout writing was clear when learning how to properly structure an essay and or paper along with keeping your reader engaged. The book explored many different topics and ways to execute the task of using a template successfully in an essay and when to use a template. A quote that stuck with me from the textbook was “academic writing has one hidden feature, it is deeply engaged in some way with other people’s views. Making whatever you are reporting on very much likable and agreeable with the correct audience. Another part of the textbook that had stuck out to me was the “listen before you leap” section on page 10. This allows the reader to almost argue with the listener in a non-aggressive way to almost try and get the other side to take a look at both views. This is often seen in politics or even sports but can be used as a weapon when writing to counter argue whatever may surprise you. I believe many of these templates can be used to your advantage when writing but we must remember these templates do not dictate the content of what we say, it only influences how we say it and what we truly mean by it. When trying to implement these templates into my own essay I had struggled as I was trying to make the template fit around my subject when I should have been doing just the opposite. It’s a skill to be able to write academically and is definitely one I am still practicing but I am thankful I have been able to learn a few of these new skills in hopes of implementing them into my own writing.
When reading the first part of “They Say I Say” reading there was a lot of valuable information to take away. One that I thought was very important was the point of making an argument. When writing a lot of people think trying to agree on everything presented is a good idea, but this can be a recipe for a very boring paper. These readings also included a certain template to write with to try and set yourself up in the right direction. It talked about making an argument to set up the rest of your paper. I’m looking forward to reading the rest of this text and putting some skills into my writing.